Hillarysworld

Sanders · Diamond

"How The Clintons Fought For Health Care Behind The Scenes" (Rachel Sladja, TPM, 3/24/10)

Optixmom · Super Moderator

I feel like throwing up. I don't know if I can forgive her for this. No excuse will do.

This might be the end of my support for her. Straw that broke the camel's back.

Hillarysmygirl16 · Administrator

if this article is true then I will be closing this site down as a Pro Hillary site. I will change it to a Moderate forum or a woman's forum but I will no longer be supporting SOS Clinton. She didn't have to involve herself and because she did I am forced to rethink my entire opinion of both Clintons its a bad bill and as far as I am concerned I am just not sure if I want her as POTUS anymore. I am sick of Politicans backing these bad bills. I am just disquested.
I am very angry at Hillary and Bill I hope she never again speaks about women's rights because she is as full of it as the other politicans..

Sanders · Diamond

I am not sure exactly which date that picture was from.

Optix, We cannot be that taken aback that she is happy at the passage of health care reform. Pres.Clinton had given us plenty heads up on that.

Look at it this way. There was never any racism. There was never any personal animosity between Candidate Hillary and Candidate Barack. The issue was always policy level.

Her primary agenda item was Health Care reform. It was since the early 1990's.

There is so much positive for women in getting health care reform through that she is probably giddy with happiness just at the thought of that. It is especially good for women who may not be working/lost job/in bad relationships/have to consider pregnancy (income will not be a factor in keeping pregnancy).

As to President Obama, he knew that a lot of the nation will push back if either his wife or if Hillary get involved. I was borderline surprised when Michelle even stepped out on childhood obesity subject because the topic came straight at fast food and posting the caloric count etc. which are all part of the health care reform bill.

There are still many differences between Hillary and Obama.

There is plenty of reason for us to be vigilant.

The health care reform does not have any public option, it does not have cross border competition and it does not have tort reform. -- these are reasons for us to continue to fight Hillary's cause.

Besides, the country and the world knows for sure now that Hillary is undeliably the best for foreign policy execution... and they also know on both Iran and Israel that her policy position works better than Candidate/President Obama's.

-- Edited by Sanders on Thursday 25th of March 2010 08:35:22 PM

Hillarysmygirl16 · Administrator

Optixmom wrote:

I feel like throwing up. I don't know if I can forgive her for this. No excuse will do.

This might be the end of my support for her. Straw that broke the camel's back.

STAMP I have such a big distaste in my mouth. I feel so betrayed by her she isn't elected why did she have to get involved. Perhaps she isn't as smart as I think she is because frankly she just killed any hope of being POTUS I have no intention of wasting my time on a LOSER. She allowed herself to commit political sucide for what? I am so angry at all Democrats I may not ever recover

Sanders · Diamond

HMG, When I saw the picture yesterday I had a distaste also, but I have had some time to think about all this and really dig deep at the bills.

Again, as a moderate I am far more into policy and implementation than personality differences there. I was far more in favor of Hillary's policy than I was ever for Obama's. That said, there is not a whole lot of difference in what they set out to achieve... only difference in approach.

As to her chances, we have to remember that politics is a game of additions. She may increase her support on the left.

One thing is clear. Being a moderate is very difficult. It is a difficult position from which to gain support from all ends. This may be what Hillary has experienced.

-- Edited by Sanders on Thursday 25th of March 2010 08:44:32 PM

Optixmom · Super Moderator

I had believed she would never sacrifice women's access to abortion. But that is what has happened. Stupak and Nelson and all of the other Pro-life **** for brain men (Obama included).

If you haven't noticed Sanders, NOW and NARAL are beside themselves with this bill. This has brought access back years. How could she do this? Unforgivable.

Hillarysmygirl16 · Administrator

Its not the picture its not even about him I could care less about rather or not those two knuckle heads get along or not. I am upset with her because this is NOT health care reform. I hope Bill Clinton plans to remove Poverty from his foundation because anyone who supports this bill is certainly no friend of the poor.. I guess neither Clinton thought of the poor people. She did not have to support this bill. She did not have to do a damn thing. I am disquested and the next time Hillary better never again say anything about women's rights she is a joke this bill is one of the most sexist peices of crap written but she supports it. Perhaps I am now glad she lost in -08 we would have had just as bad of a President if she doesn't have the brains to stay away from this crap. I am done. I just miight as well start packing to go to jail now because I will not follow this Stupid law. I have lost all respect for both Clintons

Sanders · Diamond

Stupak amendment thing is NOT part of the bill that has passed. Stupak Amendment went out when House version of the bill did not go through the Senate and it never got picked up.

This is the Senate bill that has passed through the House and amended for changes per President's version. The Senate version got adopted by the House.

There is no provision for abortion as such.. but it does not mean that there will be less access to abortion.

NOW and NARAL had bigger expectations of Obama. But we are moderates and let us remember that we were not in favor of partial birth abortion to begin with. NARAL gave Obama higher rating because of that. There is no provision for such and for late term abortion in the bill. The Senate bill as amended by the Reconciliation does not increase nor reduce access to abortion.

If that picture is congratulatory on health care, it was from Monday just before she went to AIPAC. That is what I infer based on her outfit and the other participants in the room.

If you watch her address at AIPAC, when she talked about passage of health care, she was only emphasizing America's resolve and resolution to get things done. There was no major congratulatory tone in it. But she was serious and observant of people's reaction to what she said about health care - that is something that I had observed. She made no mention of having just met with nor of having congratulated Pres.Obama. But it is quite possible that it happened.

-- Edited by Sanders on Thursday 25th of March 2010 08:52:48 PM

Sanders · Diamond

Hillarysmygirl16 wrote:

Its not the picture its not even about him I could care less about rather or not those two knuckle heads get along or not. I am upset with her because this is NOT health care reform. I hope Bill Clinton plans to remove Poverty from his foundation because anyone who supports this bill is certainly no friend of the poor.. I guess neither Clinton thought of the poor people. She did not have to support this bill. She did not have to do a damn thing. I am disquested and the next time Hillary better never again say anything about women's rights she is a joke this bill is one of the most sexist peices of crap written but she supports it. Perhaps I am now glad she lost in -08 we would have had just as bad of a President if she doesn't have the brains to stay away from this crap. I am done. I just miight as well start packing to go to jail now because I will not follow this Stupid law. I have lost all respect for both Clintons

HMG,
Stupak amendment is not part of the bill that has passed. That was on the House version of the bill.

Jail sentences is NOT part of the bill that has passed. That was part of the House version that did not get adopted into the Reconciliation.

I posted a thread with summaries of the bill. Please take a look through that.

The summaries are posted here

http://hillarysworld.activeboard.com/index.spark?aBID=132683&p=3&topicID=34842745

-- Edited by Sanders on Thursday 25th of March 2010 08:58:57 PM

Hillarysmygirl16 · Administrator

Optixmom wrote:

I had believed she would never sacrifice women's access to abortion. But that is what has happened. Stupak and Nelson and all of the other Pro-life **** for brain men (Obama included).

If you haven't noticed Sanders, NOW and NARAL are beside themselves with this bill. This has brought access back years. How could she do this? Unforgivable.

I completely agree and what benefits are there for women in this disaster. There is none and Hillary backs it like its the best thing for women since sliced bread.

Bill Clinton is supposed to be the voice of Poverty yet he stabbed them in the back this is truly unforgivable.

rachel · Platinum

Wow some people are real angry. The bill isn't the best but its what we got right now and there are benifits. I think the best part of the bill is that no insurance company will be to turn down or refuse to cover a child who is ill or has a precondition that was a major hurdle in preventing some people who werent covered by their jobs in getting insurance. The other opition was really nothing and let insurance companys continue to deny coverage because the GOP was not gonna work with him on healthcare. Again its not the best bill but people should not be surprised that Hillary likes it because she was ALWAYS for the mandate. I hope the site is not shut down, and for those who are really upset by her support for the bill I don't suggest you listen to her speech she gave to day at the capitol for women day. It was a wonderful speech but it is obvious she is happy about the bill, and I am okay with her liking the bill even if I don't she was always for the mandate.

Sanders · Diamond

If you are a woman who is dependent on your spouse's insurance, you have plenty to be thankful for.

If you get pregnant and you have no job that gives insurance, you do not have to worry about will I get health coverage, and can I afford health care for this baby.

Discontinuity will not result in loss of insurance. People who miscarry will not be denied coverage. People who develop breast cancer will not be denied coverage. Women have been denied insurance at disproportionately high rates.

Children with pre-existing condition will not loose coverage. This is almost immediate.

Mothers can be much happier knowing children can be on the family coverage a bit longer while the kids are looking for job in this bad economy.

-- Edited by Sanders on Thursday 25th of March 2010 09:06:51 PM

Hillarysmygirl16 · Administrator

Please do not tell me about the stinking benefits because guess what Children who already have pre existing conditions are not going to be helped.
I am also telling you its not going to help poor people. I now have to make a choice between paying my rent or buying this health insurrance because obama and the Clintons will put you in jail. She wants to be connected to this stupid bill then why not give her all the blame. I hope Hillary is happy I gave up an entire income tax check to her stupid Presidential campaign and she repays me by sending me to jail. I feel like an idiot for believing in her like I did. I never believed in anyone before and don't worry I won't make that mistake again. I have learned that there are no real heroines. I learned a much needed lesson that people are all azzhats and can't be trusted.

Sanders · Diamond

rachel wrote:
Wow some people are real angry. The bill isn't the best but its what we got right now and there are benifits. I think the best part of the bill is that no insurance company will be to turn down or refuse to cover a child who is ill or has a precondition that was a major hurdle in preventing some people who werent covered by their jobs in getting insurance. The other opition was really nothing and let insurance companys continue to deny coverage because the GOP was not gonna work with him on healthcare. Again its not the best bill but people should not be surprised that Hillary likes it because she was ALWAYS for the mandate. I hope the site is not shut down, and for those who are really upset by her support for the bill I don't suggest you listen to her speech she gave to day at the capitol for women day. It was a wonderful speech but it is obvious she is happy about the bill, and I am okay with her liking the bill even if I don't she was always for the mandate.

I agree completely, especially with the highlighted portion.

Likewise, I hope this site is not shut down.

And, yes, I thought she gave a wonderful speech today; I have not finished listening to it.. Typically my Thursdays are horribly busy (every week) because of a combo of work and life issues both hitting hard on Thursdays here, and I have been very deeply engaged in getting caught up on the facts of health care reform. It has not helped that I have mostly watched Fox news and they have not been helpful.

The summaries in http://hillarysworld.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=132683&p=3&topicID=34842745 are after a lot of search for good summaries of impact from stakeholder perspective. Please read.

There are many many things about health care reform that are still to be defined. What has passed is only a structure and direction. In that regard, practically all of it was in Hillary's proposal, but not vice versa i.e., not all of Hillary's proposal has been implemented... but that can still happen whether under current administration or next. I continue to call the Reps office asking for Public Option to some degree for all people especially for the poor. Meanwhile, the community health centers in this bill will go a very long way in providing health care for poorer communities.

-- Edited by Sanders on Thursday 25th of March 2010 09:27:24 PM

Hillarysmygirl16 · Administrator

Hello this bill includes a fine and most people will refuse to pay this fine and I know I will. Good Perhaps I will force this to the Supreme Court. Anytime you have a fine you have jail time. Its time that Hillary stand on her own two feet. She had NO Business doing this In fact she should be forced to step down Health care ain't got anything to do with State. Why in the hell are we paying her to pass unconstitional laws.
I would think this site is going to either close or change. I can't support her any more. She should have kept her mouth shut but she had to get herself involved so let her go down like the rest of the Democrats. I guess I will start supporting Sarah at least she doesn't claim to be for women's rights.
She lost me I am sure permently that was real stupid of her letting that big ear freak ruin her career like that.
May everyone involved with this bill burn in hell

rachel · Platinum

Hillarysmygirl16 wrote:

Please do not tell me about the stinking benefits because guess what Children who already have pre existing conditions are not going to be helped.
I am also telling you its not going to help poor people. I now have to make a choice between paying my rent or buying this health insurrance because obama and the Clintons will put you in jail. She wants to be connected to this stupid bill then why not give her all the blame. I hope Hillary is happy I gave up an entire income tax check to her stupid Presidential campaign and she repays me by sending me to jail. I feel like an idiot for believing in her like I did. I never believed in anyone before and don't worry I won't make that mistake again. I have learned that there are no real heroines. I learned a much needed lesson that people are all azzhats and can't be trusted.
Since you are saying this I am assuming you don't have healthcare coverage right now.(I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong) You are totally intitled to your opinion. There will be government subisdies for people who make under a certain I am not sure what that amount will be and could be very well if you aren't covered by your job you may end up shelling out some money for healthcare. The government can't give everyone free healthcare you have to pay for something, but think how horrible it would be if you or other people who don't have healthcare end up in the emergency hospital room and discovered they have a illnesses that could have been caught and early if they had went in for regular check ups but didnt cause they didnt have health insurance. It's not the perfect bill.

rachel · Platinum

Sanders wrote:

rachel wrote:
Wow some people are real angry. The bill isn't the best but its what we got right now and there are benifits. I think the best part of the bill is that no insurance company will be to turn down or refuse to cover a child who is ill or has a precondition that was a major hurdle in preventing some people who werent covered by their jobs in getting insurance. The other opition was really nothing and let insurance companys continue to deny coverage because the GOP was not gonna work with him on healthcare. Again its not the best bill but people should not be surprised that Hillary likes it because she was ALWAYS for the mandate. I hope the site is not shut down, and for those who are really upset by her support for the bill I don't suggest you listen to her speech she gave to day at the capitol for women day. It was a wonderful speech but it is obvious she is happy about the bill, and I am okay with her liking the bill even if I don't she was always for the mandate.

I agree completely, especially with the highlighted portion.

Likewise, I hope this site is not shut down.

And, yes, I thought she gave a wonderful speech today; I have not finished listening to it.. Typically my Thursdays are horribly busy (every week) because of a combo of work and life issues both hitting hard on Thursdays here, and I have been very deeply engaged in getting caught up on the facts of health care reform. It has not helped that I have mostly watched Fox news and they have not been helpful.

The summaries in http://hillarysworld.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=132683&p=3&topicID=34842745 are after a lot of search for good summaries of impact from stakeholder perspective. Please read.

There are many many things about health care reform that are still to be defined. What has passed is only a structure and direction. In that regard, practically all of it was in Hillary's proposal, but not vice versa i.e., not all of Hillary's proposal has been implemented... but that can still happen whether under current administration or next. I continue to call the Reps office asking for Public Option to some degree for all people especially for the poor. Meanwhile, the community health centers in this bill will go a very long way in providing health care for poorer communities.

-- Edited by Sanders on Thursday 25th of March 2010 09:27:24 PM

Stamp Sanders it feels mightly lonely on here.

Hillarysmygirl16 · Administrator

First of all this law does not have government substidies it goes on what the guidelines are for Medicad which is 500 dollars a month. That is all the money your allowed to make as an adult. I also do not believe in Gov; Health care. Perhaps if these idiots in government would become poor they wouldn't pass such bad laws.
I am so sick of people assuming that the government helps people they do not.
I am so disquested with the Dems I will never support another one. I guess I might as well become a Republican they at least don't pretend to care.

Sanders · Diamond

HMG,

The plan does define government subsidies.

It is not government health care. There are community health centers that will come up but they will also be non-profits (non-government private entities) that the government will probably provide grants to get started. I DO NOT favor government-run hospitals; I have said that before. These are not government-run hospitals nor would they depend on government money for operations. They would be funded for start-up. As non-profits, they would have much lower operational costs and would still be funded by insurance reimbursements.

Of course, those without income are still in the same boat as before as this is not UHC, and there are indeed no government-run facilities. Nor is it a single payer system. These are all far left liberal ideas.

Cost of health care will probably be little to nothing for low income people. The cost equations have improved majorly in the bills progressively and so have the provisions for employer-provided bills - all slanting majorly in favor of employees.

Again, I encourage you to read the summaries of bills. I know you have been tied up.. I have to admit, HMG, I was quite surprised as I read some of the more solid summaries - the bill especially as amended is far better than I had expected. No, it is not perfect..

As someone with a fantastic health care insurance (I have a tremendous coverage) through my spouse, I will end up paying cadillac tax. But I already sleep better knowing that if something were to happen to him, I will be able to buy insurance from another source for both myself and my kid, despite all my pre-existing conditions, and if at that time I do not have a job, I will get subsidies to buy that insurance which will make the insurance extremely affordable.

-- Edited by Sanders on Thursday 25th of March 2010 10:19:38 PM

-- Edited by Sanders on Thursday 25th of March 2010 10:31:15 PM

Optixmom · Super Moderator

I am not all rah-rah because this bill does not define what is health care coverage. It could be anything. It could just cover annual doctor visits and anything above that has to be paid out of pocket like many policies do. It still contains the separation of abortion procedures having to have a separate policy that a woman has to pay for.

Health care coverage does not mean they pay 100%. It doesn't even mean they have to pay 50%. Coverage is a very broad term. If you have cancer, their "coverage" could be an older therapy that is cost effective but not necessary the best treatment for the type of cancer. That is still coverage, but not the coverage you want or need.

My husband and I go through policy after policy every fricken year to pick the one we can afford that gives us the most options. This year was the "hope you don't have to stay overnight in the hospital" year because we would have to pay 50% of the bill. Next year there will be another sacrifice. But we still have "coverage".

If abortion access wasn't an issue in this bill then why are NOW and NARAL so upset? They are preparing to withhold funds for any Democrat who voted for this monstrosity.

I don't see anything good about this. Nothing.

Hillarysmygirl16 · Administrator

There are no government substiarys I don't care what the lying Politicans and Media says. I say we were betrayed. I am planning now to wipe out these people that voted for it. I hope they are happy I am supposed to remain poor because the ****ing liberals want the government to pay for everything. The Politicans should be lined up and shot for this law. I am sorry but they need to be frightened of the people.
I am removing anything postive about this bill I do not want anyone to think this site supports Health care reform.
I don't even want to be HMG anymore she betrayed me and I certainly can't forgive her for that. I am the one who is going to pay the price for stupid liberals.
Please spear me the so called "nightmare" stories about people with no coverage. I am truly done with this issue and there is no point giving me bull **** to read I read the ****ing bill I know what is in it. The media lies and so do the ****ing clinton's and obamas. Oh and MO has no ****ing business dealing with Obesity she has never been and she is an idiot.

VotedHillary · Platinum

Stupak amendment thing is NOT part of the bill that has passed. Stupak Amendment went out when House version of the bill did not go through the Senate and it never got picked up.

Again, not the entire truth regarding this part of the bill. Obama signed an EXECUTIVE ORDER yesterday that tacks on the Stupak language. Probably didn't notice because the press was BARRED from the signing ceremony.

The White House did not allow news reporters or photographers into Wednesday’s Oval Office signing of the order reaffirming a ban on federal funding of abortion. Instead, it released an official photograph by White House photographer Pete Souza that some news organizations, including CNN and POLITICO, declined to use.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34972.html#ixzz0jFJVa1Xi

Sanders · Diamond

Yes, I read it and have seen the EO. I had posted link to the Executive Order language here in the thread where I was tracking the proceedings. Executive Order is mostly reinforcing Hyde Act.

VotedHillary · Platinum

Sanders wrote:

Yes, I read it and have seen the EO. I had posted link to the Executive Order language here in the thread where I was tracking the proceedings. Executive Order is mostly reinforcing Hyde Act.

Then how can you tout that the Stupak language isn't part of the bill when this order was the backroom deal made with him to get his group's vote?

That is called shading the truth, Sanders. I get enough of that from our government.

Sanders · Diamond

The full Executive Order language was put out for public view on Sunday afternoon.
I read it on that day. I read the language on Sunday.

Only the signature was done today and it was not a public photo op, but several photos were put out. I saw them.

-- Edited by Sanders on Thursday 25th of March 2010 10:48:58 PM

Hillarysmygirl16 · Administrator

I am so sick of people saying that poor people will be covered. All I know is I live below the poverty level and the goverment is supposed to help me but they don't. I am telling you that this plan is bad. I will never again support Democrats. I get sick every time I see Hillary's face on this board because I am so angry at her right now. I hope she is happy she shot herself in the foot she is no role model for women all she ever does is roll over and let men walk all over her. Please she killed her career all for some big ear freak that will never be reelected anyway.
I hope the cry baby liberals are happy. No wonder Democrats always lose.

rachel · Platinum

Hillarysmygirl16 wrote:

I am so sick of people saying that poor people will be covered. All I know is I live below the poverty level and the goverment is supposed to help me but they don't. I am telling you that this plan is bad. I will never again support Democrats. I get sick every time I see Hillary's face on this board because I am so angry at her right now. I hope she is happy she shot herself in the foot she is no role model for women all she ever does is roll over and let men walk all over her. Please she killed her career all for some big ear freak that will never be reelected anyway.
I hope the cry baby liberals are happy. No wonder Democrats always lose.

What republican do you see beating Obama in 2012? I mean granted anything can happen but I see no one as of yet in the republican party thats up to par.

captain friday · gold

You guys, please remember that in Washington DC the hardest thing to be is a Clinton. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

If she did not hug Obama and put on that Oscar worthy smile she would be denounced as being "jealous" and "bitter".

Hillary did NOT do more behind the scenes than she absolutely had to. She was NOT among the arm twisters.

Don't any of you find it curious that a pro Obama site is only NOW mentioning Hillary in regards to Obamacare???

Only now that people are discovering the loopholes and other Liberals are criticizing it as well?

The origin of this bill is with the Heritage Foundation and is the same one that the Republicans back in 1993 were trying to counter Hillarycare with. You think Hillary does'nt know this??

Hillary can very easily say two years from now that she honestly did'nt realize what a clusterf**k the bill actually was. How could she with Israel, Iran, Russia, etc on her plate.

Of course she and Bill are happy. They know Pelosi and Obama are gonna pay dearly for this come election time.

Hillarysmygirl16 · Administrator

rachel wrote:

Hillarysmygirl16 wrote:

I am so sick of people saying that poor people will be covered. All I know is I live below the poverty level and the goverment is supposed to help me but they don't. I am telling you that this plan is bad. I will never again support Democrats. I get sick every time I see Hillary's face on this board because I am so angry at her right now. I hope she is happy she shot herself in the foot she is no role model for women all she ever does is roll over and let men walk all over her. Please she killed her career all for some big ear freak that will never be reelected anyway.
I hope the cry baby liberals are happy. No wonder Democrats always lose.

What republican do you see beating Obama in 2012? I mean granted anything can happen but I see no one as of yet in the republican party thats up to par.

LOL Bush would have been out of office four years and after the Dems passed this bill they are done. 65% of the American people dislike this bill and it passed anyway people are going to be out for blood. I don't care what anyone says Racism sadly will play a part but I do not believe Obama is going to run again. Don't assume its going to be Republicans those Liberals can be just as racist as the Conservatives. Obama does face racism. I would feel more sorry for him if he hadn't played the race card on everyone.
I expect Obama to be treated like Bill Clinton in the 90s. Neither of these men represent the status quo. Hillary will win the Democratic Nomination in 2012 and will win the White House. I am not thrilled with her but I know she is going to win.
So your right the Republicans won't beat Obama nor will they beat Hillary. Obama is going to not run.

Hillarysworld

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How The Clintons Fought For Health Care Behind The Scenes

Rachel Slajda | March 24, 2010, 5:51PM

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