Hillarysworld

Sanders · Diamond

"The Descent of John McCain" (12/18/10)

Jen the Michigander · SuperModerator

Yeah, I don't know what's gotten into McCain lately. I don't think it's bitterness over 2008-- he never even tried to win that one. Maybe he's just getting too old and grumpy?

Sanders · Diamond

He has been so grumpy that I wonder where's that maverick. Did we just imagine him.. Really, the man we find now is quite something else.

John McCain’s Very Sad Day

DADT Repeal—Not “a Sad Day”

What a picture! So true.

The rate at which he is spewing bile on the senate floor, I wonder if his heart can take it for another 6 years. If he does, he is not getting re-elected though.

Quote of the Day: Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Repeal Makes You Imagine a McCain Administration

LOL What a truly sad state of affairs!

-- Edited by Sanders on Sunday 19th of December 2010 12:58:53 PM

jdona · Platinum

I've got the highly unpopular stance of siding with McCain. The ground troops did not want this repealed. We ask them to be the first to get shot, maimed and killed, did a study on what their opinions were then trashed their opinions as unimportant. Those on the front lines risk more, sacrifice more than the stock room clerk stateside. Why do a study at all if you have no intention of considering it if it doesn't agree with what you want it to say? Both the Marine Corps and Army commandants testified against this and said it would cost them lives on the ground, and they still went along with it. My son and husband were Marines, my father Army and my stepfather and father in law Navy, all combat except my son and they are furious.

Addendum: I made the mistake of posting something similar to this over at pumapac.org thinking we would have an honest, open, RESPECTFUL debate, only to have DanceswithPumas attack my family and call them cowards. I am done with pumapac.org, personal attacks on my family are off limits. I would hope and pray that dissenting voices here will not be so vitriol, because if they are, I'm done with here as well. Pumas have never been cohesive in everything, the main unifying theme with Pumas was our support for Hillary Clinton and our belief she was cheated out of the nomination. This is something I disagree with based mostly on my experience with military men in my family. They were on the battle lines, they were in Germany, Korea, and the jungles of Vietnam. Other peoples experiences with those in the military may be different, that doesn't mean mine are any less credible. And if we can't disagree here with respect, then I for sure am taking a hike.

-- Edited by jdona on Sunday 19th of December 2010 01:45:37 PM

Sanders · Diamond

jdona, I hear what you are saying. I dont think we even asked the ground troop if they want women to work side by side with them. It did not cause major harm.

As to McCain, there is a time and place for push back. He was not strong in his push back at the appropriate time. If he really wanted to make his point that he did before the final vote, he needed to do so much earlier.

To be totally honest, not being a LGBT, the entire concept is a bit uncomfortable for me. But I accept it. It is much like the whole notion of someone else eating meat. Actually, I get the same physical reaction to the thought. It is good for them, not for me. What is clear though is that is it not illegal behavior in this country. And, we do promise equality in the U.S.

Yes, they did ask the soldiers for their input. I hope they consider all the input in planning the implementation aspects of the DADT Repeal. Much like they did in their integration of women into their work, it should be doable. And, hopefully, they will put each other first in their line of duty the same way they are trained to do regardless of their sexual orientation.

I have read many articles on this topic; the most impactful articles were these two.
Why the repeal of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' is a teachable moment
A Gay Soldier's Letter Before Leaving For Afghanistan

No progress in this country was ever made with the votes of the minority. It was alway in pursuit of equality and the correct heartful thing to do for citizens of the country.

-- Edited by Sanders on Sunday 19th of December 2010 09:30:09 PM

jdona · Platinum

I appreciate that Sanders. I understand the ideal of wanting equality under the law. I am NOT saying they don't have a right to join. I question only trying to implement this sweeping of a policy at this time fighting two wars. Nothing more. nothing less.

PS: Here is a link to the report. Interesting reading!
http://www.defense.gov/home/features/2010/0610_gatesdadt/DADTReport_FINAL_20101130(secure-hires).pdf

-- Edited by jdona on Monday 20th of December 2010 10:53:43 AM

Sanders · Diamond

Jdona, Thanks. I will read tonight, as I am in the midst of a heavy workday now.

Meanwhile, when I said I hope they consider all aspects of implementation, I was thinking of this report and the fact that: Gays in the Military: Still Illegal for Time Being and 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Repeal Passes Senate, But Change Will Take Time. There will be transition period from what I understand. Various guidelines are going to be written on how to address any concerns and issues. That was the understanding I got. I hope that is accurate.

jdona · Platinum

I don't know Sanders. The report is kinda vague in a whole lot of ways. One of the things that piqued my curiosity is the statements over and over that while they anticipate trouble, the commanding officers already have the tools and the means to handle it. So if they already have the tools to handle it, A. what are they, B. who are they handling, and C. why not use them already. I'm not really sure what they meant by that.

Sanders · Diamond

jdona, I am still reading the report. It is confusing at times. I'll read more of the report tomorrow.

One thing I know for sure. Between the Judiciary striking DADT and legislature passing repeal of DADT and bringing orderly change with rules and regulations on what to do if there are unit issues, I'd much prefer the latter. I think in the final days, before repeal, it came down to that choice... or so I gathered as I read this: How DADT Was Repealed.